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PostPosted: Tue Apr 10, 2012 6:14 pm 
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Explosives, eh?

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 10, 2012 6:58 pm 
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Dam, now it makes a little bit sense. While looking at the current
pricing, I couldn't help think "last time I went gun shopping, Sig's
weren't selling for $1,xxx+".

What I can't get my head around is, I know the current administration is
not pro 2nd Amd. If BO is voted out will the new administration be anti
2nd Amd. as well? Is that the reason there is an ammo shortage?
Or is it just basic economics, S/D? cost of materials going up? etc...

Now, regarding the doomsday frenzy talk, I get it but....
:roll:

Thanks for the info Will and Mike I like your offer but dam you put
2700 rounds through it? Image You're an animal. I was looking for a Sig
in .357 flavor, I remember Will saying that was that way to go but
I don't remember why? And IIRC that's what Will has and it
is what we shot last time out that I enjoyed.

I guess I could have the rail modified for the .357 because I'm
not paying these hiked up prices for a new one.

Also maybe Brian will come as well? I might be able to find a plus one.

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 10, 2012 7:07 pm 
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With the 226 in .40, all you'd have to do is buy the .357 sig barrel and it will work just like factory. The .357 sig round also fits in the .40 magazine. Shoot me an offer.... No pun intended lol.

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 10, 2012 7:16 pm 
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Dam, fast reply, you're really trying to sell it.
:lol:

So, the.357 in the .40 mag but not the .40 in a .357 mag? Correct.

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 10, 2012 7:29 pm 
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Not sure about that. Maybe Will can chime in on that.

Very motivated to sell. Been looking around at new 1911's, but I can't buy untill I sell the sig lol.

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 10, 2012 7:51 pm 
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Omar, there are two things you should never ask Will about: politics and the economy.

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 10, 2012 8:11 pm 
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I know. That's why I NEVER considered a politics forum in the past.

The question is centered around the ammo shortage and the hike
in firearm prices.

I have no interest in talking about any other current and/or future
political or economical issues taking place.

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 11, 2012 2:57 pm 
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Mike, if you want an affordable 1911 look at the Para GI expert. I paid 499 for mine and never had an issue. It is acurate as all hell and reliable too. It doesnt have a rail but it is a 5" barrel and 8rd mag.


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 11, 2012 6:50 pm 
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Ya, thought about Para, but they just don't have the name and quality standards as say Springfield or Smith & Wesson. Thanks for the tip though.

So, Omar, thought about it at all? I'm willing to negotiate a little if you really want it. I'd much rather sell it to a friend than some random guy off a forum.

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 11, 2012 11:47 pm 
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Sorry Mike, I have this "friend" of mine and she's been taken up
some of my free time lately. I'll probably bring her if we set up
a day here. Or another buddy who like the Sig, he says he's "down".
If it's not her then it's the car or something else lately.

May 19th is spring Import Showdown and I don't want to miss it.
The POS has been going ok, and I need to get more track time in it.
I want to finish up all of my little BS projects and focus on racing.
I want 12s this year!

And every once in a while I say to myself I really want to buy a gun.
So, I'm thinking I'd atleast like to shoot it and I'm wondering
what the requirements are, for you to sell this to me privately.

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 12, 2012 3:07 am 
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Requirements are: hand you the gun. Receive cash. Say "have a nice day"


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 12, 2012 8:37 am 
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^ Correct. Just need to write up a bill of sale stating I sold you the pistol and that's it.

I don't mean to rush you or anything. Just wanted to give you first dibs on it before I started asking around or posting an ad on a Florida gun forum. Let me know what you'd like to do. You can just text me if you want instead of posting here.

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 13, 2012 10:08 am 
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Fucking-a; a few days at the dentist and I've missed 10 conversations!

Lots to recap here.

First, yea, the shoot would be on a weekend. Most likely a Saturday. I expect most everyone has Saturdays off?

Omar/Mike:
Sig .40s&w/.357sig: everything is identical EXCEPT for the barrel. My P226 was also a .40 when I got it; I bought a factory Sig .357s barrel and voila! The .357 is dead sexy and just "feels right" to me in the gun, but the .40 ammo is going to be easier to find and cheaper to shoot. Regardless, with the gun and both barrels, you essentially have two guns you can shoot depending on ammo availability.

Omar:
Also, 2700rd down the pipe isn't really all that much. I know it sounds like a lot, but I ran 500 rds through one of my guns on Weds. just testing a new prototype magazine out. I put probably 1k/mo through my glock 19, and I'm not shooting much at all anymore. Maybe 3 or 4 outings a month. When you're shooting frequently enough to maintain proficiency (say 100-200rds/mo), the round counts go up a lot faster than when you're only breaking the gun out 2 or 3 times a year and putting a box of 50rds through it. In short, 2700rds is only a bit more than "broken in".

Mike:
Paras are actually pretty good. My gov't model is a Para. That said, I know they've got a hit-or-miss reputation online, but I've known a lot of para shooters and all were happy with their guns. The biggest pain point for them in recent times was the move from Canada to NC, which is about the time I got mine and had my rear sight issue. The biggest issue with Paras (still to this day) is the finish on their non-SS guns; they are WELL known to have flaking/chipping/wear issues.

Anyhow, the Springfield GI's are also considered good "base" guns, but it's also tough to beat the Rock Island Armory guns. As I think I've mentioned, the RIA guns are frequently used as the foundation for top-level USPSA/IPSC race guns. If I could get my money back on my Para and my Colt, I'd get a couple RIA's without batting an eye. Though, I prefer the SS finishes to the paint/coating type finishes (save for Glocks' Tenifer).

Paul
Yes. Explosives. Big bada-boom! :mrgreen:

That, however, will depend on where we do our range day. I have a place in mind, but I'm not sure if we'll be able to book it.

Market/election antics:
This has nothing to do with politics, religion, or even reality; it's all about mass-psychology and (to a lesser extent) market factors.

We've pretty much got a "perfect storm" brewing right now. We've got an incumbent who has repeatedly made comments that he'd like to back-door gun legislation through executive orders, and whose DOJ got busted selling guns illegally to the mexican drug cartels so they could justify more gun control. Plus, Obama also made comments that "Treyvon was like a long-lost son", and the whole Sanford mess is going to probably become a huge gun-rights show down where Obama is standing on the anti (and this could also be used as justification for a gun ban). Not to mention, Obama also got caught on an open mic telling the Russians "just wait 'til you see what I do once I don't have to worry about getting reelected". For all we know, he's planning to turn-coat and turn us into a libertarian paradise; or equally a socialist one. The fact is that we don't know, but the comment is being interpreted to mean that he's going to try and fuck up America and the constitution as badly as he can. He also has a history of trying to bypass congress with things he wants done, but they don't (SOPA type laws come to mind with the ACTA agreement he signed without the consent of congress).

Add to this that it looks like he actually has a chance of winning, and the firearms market goes nutty since a clinton-style ban (or worse) thus appears imminent.

Now, lets look at the (now) only alternative: Romney. "Romneycare" was the basis for "Obamacare", and facilitated the passing of a clinton-style gun-ban in MA. For all intents and purposes, this makes him very much a psychological equal to Obama. The catch is that he'll be in his "first-4" looking for a reelection if he wins. This, in the mind of some, makes him better than Obama, although only slightly. Regardless, the election of Romney also makes a gun ban appear pretty imminent (maybe not first 4, but very likely by second 4).

So, yes, the problem is that you've got anti-2a vs anti-2a; no matter who wins its bad for gun owners and gun rights. The variable is "how bad" and that's something I don't think anyone can hope to predict (as much as they'd like to).

Now, lay politics aside for a minute. We've also got a lot of folks who are absolutely convinced that the earth is going to stop turning, the polar ice caps will melt, jesus will return, the devil will come to earth, and so on and so forth all on 12/21/2012. These people are building underground shelters and stockpiling multi-year food supplies along with tens (or even hundreds) of thousands of rounds of ammunition along with tens and hundreds of firearms.

Also, lets not forget that copper prices are through the roof, along with brass and pretty much every other metal out there due to world wide economic woes, and a zillion other market factors.

In short, we've got a presidential election - which almost always makes the firearms market a bit crazy unless the incumbent is essentially assured reelection and is very pro-2a - where the guaranteed outcome is NOT 2a friendly (so there is no hope to keep the market at all rational), added with say 5-10% of the country believing doomsday is imminent and as such they are willing to pay ANY price to build their stockpile, plus metals and materials prices through the roof.

When it was Obama vs Mccain, the more it looked like Obama would win, the worse the firearms market got (prices went up, availability went down). After the election, a lot of vendors had multi-year backlogs.

The gut feeling from the couple of industry insiders I know is that (given the current situation of all of the above), this "crunch" is likely to be *MUCH* worse. It's started a lot earlier than the '08 mess, and it's getting a lot worse a lot faster.

The same sort of thing is happening in the NFA (machine guns, suppressors, destructive devices, etc.) world with the transfers through ATF; the processing time is going up one month for every month that passes because the application volume is increasing at a HUGE rate; in part due to election fears, in part due to EOTWAWKI fears, and in part because some states have recently passed pro-gun/NFA legislation (washington recently made the use of suppressors legal within the state, even though ownership has been legal for years, and a few other states just legalized suppressors for hunting use).

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 13, 2012 11:40 am 
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sillycon wrote:
Market/election antics:
This has nothing to do with politics, religion, or even reality; it's all about mass-psychology and (to a lesser extent) market factors.

blah blah blah

Yeah, that had nothing to do with politics... :roll:

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 13, 2012 12:42 pm 
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You can chose to politicize it, the fact is that it wouldn't matter who is running for office; two D candidates, two R candidates, two I candidates.

They're people who have announced intentions to ban something people enjoy and desire; it doesn't matter if they mean it or not. The impact is going to be the same; people will take the comment at face value and stockpile.

Also adding to the mess (I was unaware of this until earlier today):
http://www.yolohub.com/politics/why-doe ... nt-bullets

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 13, 2012 2:36 pm 
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sillycon wrote:
You can chose [sic] to politicize it

K. I choose not to.

sillycon wrote:
They're people who have announced intentions to ban something people enjoy and desire

That's pretty political... and arguably false. That's all I'll say.

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PostPosted: Sat Apr 14, 2012 10:52 pm 
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So now you're deleting posts? Really?

Fact is, there's a run on firearms and ammo. I'm simply relaying why to those who asked.

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 15, 2012 12:44 am 
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You were annoying me. I wrote ten words, you wrote an essay and told me to GTFO. I know you're used to prancing around like a tyrannosaurus rex with a machine gun, but someone's got to fact check you now and then.

Omar, what I should've said was don't even allude to anything political.

Anyway, carry on... "debate" over.

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 15, 2012 1:46 am 
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Thanks for your input Will. I agree basically with alot
of what you said. And again, it starting to make more sense,
I figured this was just alot of "guns kill people" ignorance.
I have a few family members who are anti gun people but they have
no reason why. Most of the time they're answer is "no, no, no guns are bad".

When do you ever read an article about someone who's life was
truly in danger from say, a home break in and the home owner
shot the intruder. Afterwards, the home owner was given praise
in his/her community, never. At least not in today's, whenever it's
convenient, politically correct media.

And yes, it's interesting how fast the ACTA just came and went in
America. :thumb down:

Getting back to setting up a date, I'm down for what ever date we set.
I should hit a range down by me to test some hand guns out. That's
really is the only way to make a final decision(after you do the
appropriate research) on a firearm purchase.

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 15, 2012 4:06 pm 
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Ok guys I'm buying Mike's Sig, so let's do this!

Maybe in the evening during the week?

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 16, 2012 9:20 am 
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Paul wrote:
You were annoying me. I wrote ten words, you wrote an essay and told me to GTFO. I know you're used to prancing around like a tyrannosaurus rex with a machine gun, but someone's got to fact check you now and then.

Omar, what I should've said was don't even allude to anything political.

Anyway, carry on... "debate" over.


What "fact checking" is there for you to do? Romney signed a gun ban in MA, and the Obama administration 1) listed it as a policy priority on the WH.gov website and 2) has emails going back and forth in the DOJ saying they wanted to use F&F to justify more gun control.

Those are all the facts that are necessary to create a run in the firearms market/industry.

Add to that increases in metals prices (simple fact), the UN small arms treaty (may not happen, but doesn't matter -- the perception that it could is all that matters here), Calderons saber rattling (again, only perceptions matter), goings-on within ATF (more perceptions mattering), and a 450m ammo order from DHS (and, yet again, more perceptions mattering -- but this incites the prepper crowd as well as shortens supply for the commercial market) and it squeezes an already tight market even more.

Anyhow, if we do it on a weekday evening, I think it'll end up being a smaller gathering. Also, we'll be more limited in what we can bring/shoot (or blow up, if anything) as well as where we can go.

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 16, 2012 11:51 am 
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sillycon wrote:
...crazy rhetoric...

I thought you said to leave this thread for organizing a trip to the shooting range.

sillycon wrote:
Anyhow, if we do it on a weekday evening, I think it'll end up being a smaller gathering. Also, we'll be more limited in what we can bring/shoot (or blow up, if anything) as well as where we can go.

Plus, you and I won't be able to go until Wednesday evening if it's on a weekday. I probably won't have any spare time until the weekend anyway.

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 16, 2012 2:42 pm 
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I'm not exaggerating anything (I'm guessing that's what you're trying to suggest I'm doing by calling my posts "rhetoric"); I'm simply explaining why we're seeing a shift in the supply/demand balance within the firearms market.

Since you seem to need further evidence of what is otherwise pretty commonly known to be fact, the Obama campaign website notes they'd like to reinstate the old gun ban.

http://change.gov/agenda/urbanpolicy_agenda/

Up until recently, the same verbiage was on the whitehouse.gov website. Also, as of a few days ago when the whitehouse (press secretary) was asked if they still believed in reinstating the ban, the response was "I don't have any new information on that." which is all that's necessary to cast Obama and the WH as an anti-gun, pro-ban administration and that (combined with the other bits of "evidence") is all it takes to keep the market going bonkers.

Millions of people remember the Clinton ban and what a mess it made of things, and they don't want to get caught with their pants down again (i.e. no more "It'll never happen.").

As for my comment of wanting to keep this about the get-together, well, you're the one that deleted that post of mine... why bring it up after the fact?

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 16, 2012 6:43 pm 
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I was referring to how you tend to go on rants, even when no one is arguing with you. Case in point... (see above)

People think every gun in the US is going to banned, so the firearms market goes haywire. People think the world is going to end, so the firearms market goes haywire again. I wasn't denying perceptions influence the market.

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 17, 2012 2:41 am 
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I see a few names that check the board but don't post.

I can understand that over on tooners but here?

C'mon everyone give your input, there's no way everyone here is
busy 24/7 - 365. And I know some of us are busy but, you have time
to post up.

I say next weekend 28th or 29th.

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 17, 2012 9:20 am 
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The only days I can do are Fridays and Saturdays since I work day shifts now and those are my 2 days off for the week.

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 18, 2012 12:03 am 
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DSMmaniac_Big_O wrote:
I say next weekend 28th or 29th.

Yeah, if I'm going, next weekend will probably be the best. Friday evening or Saturday works for me (since that's what works for Mike). Will mentioned something about the weekend being ideal too.

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 18, 2012 9:48 am 
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Then I guess lets tentatively say Saturday April 28th.

I'll see if I can find us a range somewhere.

Can everyone post up if they'll go, and if they'll be bringing any "Pluses"?

Edit:

Ok, I should be able to get us a bay up at Okeechobee Shooting Sports. Cost would be $45/hr, but we are limited to a max of ~6-8 shooters. Unfortunately, on the shorter range we would be renting, we cannot detonate any explosives.

Also, we would need to bring our own ammo as availability of ammo cannot be guaranteed in their pro-shop.

I also realize that for a lot of you this will be "very far" and possibly not worth the drive, so I haven't booked us a slot.

Let me know what you guys think.

Meanwhile, I'll keep trying to get the range in SW Ranches on the phone, and I'll also see if it would be possible to pre-book a few lanes at an indoor in northern Broward...

I really do need a headcount though.

So far it seems like it would be 5-8:

Me + 1
Mike ? 1
O ? 1
Paul ? 1
D ? 1

Anyone know if Agim is still checking the board? Also, AJ and D?

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 18, 2012 7:57 pm 
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Don't know if I can make it that day. A guy from work wife's pregnant an is due right around that time so I'm not sure if I'll be asked to cover him or not.

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2012 8:33 am 
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Car: 92 GST
I can make it that day, the issue and I'm sad to say this but,
Okeechobee is just a bit too far. Car Pool?

I was thinking about the Trail Glades range but even that makes it a
little further for you north guys.

Also, tentatively I have a plus one maybe a plus two but it's going to depend
on time and place. One of my buddies(Big gun guy) just took a position in the
company down in Key West. So, in due time he will be moving his family down there.

Somebody needs to call D and get him to come. He's probably a plus one as well
if he does come.

_________________
Being a "Patriot" does not mean prioritizing service to government above all else.
-Edward Snowden


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